Okay so I am getting flack from my commenters about taking girls to gay bars. Not that I do this all the time, or often, but I have done so more than once. And I’ll do it again! Here’s why.
First, gay bars are more fun than straight bars. Unless you want to watch a sporting event on TV, what kind of entertainment do you get at a straight bar? Okay, my local hangout has ’80s trivia on Sundays, which is a lot of fun. But generally there isn’t much unless you go to someplace that has a cover. (There’s nothing like that in HK).
At a gay HK bar like Therapy or Vlada you might be treated to a performance by Scotty the Blue Bunny, guys in drag or a bunch of overweight women singing showtunes and throwing twinkies into the audience. Fun!
Second, the people are friendlier at gay bars. You can get into interesting conversations with people at neighboring tables.
Third, it shows you’re open-minded and secure … and tests whether your date is open-minded and secure. Who wants to date someone who isn’t fun!
Fourth, you might get hit on at the bar and decide you want to broaden your horizons. Just kidding! But hey, it’s always flattering. And hey, maybe it’ll get your date jealous and she’ll decide she needs to compete a little bit.
Fifth, maybe your date will decide you are gay … so she’ll be even more surprised when you proposition her at the end of the night. You can let her know that she might be able to “convert” you!
Sixth and lastly, you generally won’t have to worry about someone else stealing your date! (Not that another guy has ever done that to me, but another girl did once…)
“and tests whether your date is open-minded and secure. Who wants to date someone who isn’t fun!”
Yes, but if someone is just getting to know you, it *could* send the wrong message. You made it clear in a previous entry that you have been burned by girls who were into, as you put it, va-jay-jay, but many women have had experiences with guys who swore up and down that they were straight, and then…ya find out about a gay experience, or two, or three.
Initial dates shouldn’t necessarily be about “testing” someone and making them all insecure. Dating is nerve-wracking enough, especially since you don’t really know someone’s background if you meet them on the web. Sure, YOU know who you are, but someone who’s only been on a few dates with you doesn’t.
Do you want someone who is so secure that she doesn’t care enough to worry about you and your capability of being attracted to women?
On the other hand, you did say that you want someone uninhibited. But I guess you have to decide how uninhibited you want them to be. Someone looking to settle down might not be into the types of “fun” you have in mind.
You go “a girl.”
Aww, I am quite certain the girl I took to this place was confident that I am attracted to women in general and her in particular … we did make out the first time we met. And hey, the last time we talked she was telling me about getting all these lap-dances at Scores. That did not worry me either.
If a girl is so insecure that she’s going to get worried because I take her to a gay show, or to see “Brokeback Mountain,” I doubt that she’s the girl for me. I like confident girls.
Of course I wouldn’t really take every girl I date to gay place, any more than I’d take every girl I’ve dated to a crowded dance club. But I absolutely do like to “test” my dates.
I don’t see what the big deal is about taking a date to a gay bar. Derek’s right; they’re fun. I’d only start to question a man’s sexuality if he wanted to go to a gay bar all the time and checked out other guys while we were there.
Having said that, the concept of “testing” dates doesn’t sit that well with me. I think the first few dates are all about talking, getting to know each other, and gauging chemistry levels. That should pretty well obviate the need to impose external conditions to see how people react. To put it another way, if I think I’m being “tested” in some way on a first date, there’s not going to be a second.
Interesting discussion. Carry on.
Well let’s define what I mean by testing. If you ask someone what was the last book they read, or try to engage them in a conversation about current events, to me that is a test. I normally ask my dates or prospects what they do when they aren’t working (“working or drinking” if I’ve met them in a bar). That is definitely a test as well.
I once met a girl who took all her dates paddling on the Gowanus Canal in Brooklyn and that was her form of a test. (Alas she had already met a guy who had passed that test). And I will admit awhile back I met this girl, a teacher, from sort of a working-class background … so I took her to the W Hotel’s Underbar on our first date to see how she’d handle it.
Hm. The first paragraph might be difference of semantics: I’d call that getting to know someone, not testing. If I ask a date or prospect what he does when he’s not working and he says something like “I watch a lot of TV,” I don’t think of that as failing a test. I just flag it as an interest we don’t share. It’s the cumulative effect of a number of those similarities and differences that make me more or less inclined towards seeing any dating potential
The second paragraph, however, refers to imposing a condition outside of someone’s comfort level on that person to see how he or she reacts, and that rubs me the wrong way. I think those situations arise naturally enough without having to deliberately generate them.
But whenever you plan a date, aren’t you deliberately generating a situation? I don’t see anything wrong with basically saying, “hey, this is me, can you handle it?”
“But whenever you plan a date, aren’t you deliberately generating a situation? I don’t see anything wrong with basically saying, “hey, this is me, can you handle it?”
Sorry, but generally straight guys shouldn’t take girls out to gay bars on a date. The date will definitely think either you are a closeted case, confused or just wanting to check out the guys. It really doesn’t matter how comfortable you are. She is probably not comfortable. She’ll be thinking:
“Is he or isn’t he?……he’s got to be…”
Why are you making it so difficult for yourself? In the beginning, dates should be simple. No testing.
Sorry, I’m not with you on this one
Keep it simple!
With all respect, I think what you (along with “a girl” and tonya) are saying is that you would not be comfortable at a gay bar. Which is fine, I actually don’t go to gay bars all that often and certainly don’t like them enough that it would be anywhere near a dealbreaker.
Hopefully if I ever found myself on a date with any of you I’d sense that you wouldn’t be comfortable, and not take you to one!
But all girls are different and the one I took to Therapy was a really fun, hip, cool chick who got lap-dances at strip clubs and had a little tattoo of a cocktail glass on her hip. I really think she was perfectly fine there and had a good time. If I manage to see her again I will ask.
“But all girls are different and the one I took to Therapy was a really fun, hip, cool chick who got lap-dances at strip clubs and had a little tattoo of a cocktail glass on her hip.”
That really doesn’t mean anything. Just because your date loves lap dances at a local strip joint or gentlemen’s club and has a little tattoo doesn’t mean she wouldn’t “judge” you. She wouldn’t say it, but internally, she may think you are a closeted case or curious.
On point #6, if you are that secure of yourself, why be afraid of other guys stealing your dates?
It is either you are trying to make excuses to go to gay bars or just setting yourself up for people to judge. I’m sure you don’t care what people perceive of you, but if you are going out on a date, albeit a first one, a gay bar is NOT the way to go.
Why can’t you plan simple dates? Let the dates grow!!!!
There is also nothing wrong with “working-class” people hanging out at W’s Underbar. I don’t see that as a test.
This was not a first date, I don’t think I would take a girl to something that edgy on a first date. It was a second date, we had already gotten drunk at this cool sushi bar, so why not check out the classy gay bar next door?
Point #6 was tounge-in-cheek, just like points 4 and 5.
I agree with you there’s nothing “wrong” with people of any class hanging out at Underbar. But I just wanted to see if she’d be comfortable there. If she wouldn’t it never would have worked. As it was I didn’t call her again, but for other reasons.
Word of caution on this particular post, other readers may think you are gay or bi. I am not saying that you are, but they would “assume” so. The points you have listed out is a clear indication of excuses you are making for yourself.
You totally set yourself up by taking them to those bars. You live in New York City not in Savannah, Georgia. There’s plenty of places to do and hang out.
Grrrr!! Really I am not gay or bi.. not that there’s anything wrong with that….
“Them”! I have taken like two girls, tops, to gay bars. I think you are being silly. Yes there is a ton to do in NYC, but I am not going to avoid a fun outing just because I’m concerned of being thought of as some limp-wristed girly man. The fact of the matter is is that I got a third date with this girl, and I’m sure I’d see her again were it not for her moving to the west coast.
I’m going to side with Derek on this one — the whole point of dating is to give someone a taste of your world, on various levels, and see if they’re comforable with it. Hopefully, the right person for you will feel as comfortable in your world as you are in theirs, and ideally, you’ll bring them together (boy, do I sound like a romantic sap, which, perhaps, I am).
“Grrrr!! Really I am not gay or bi.. not that there’s anything wrong with that….”
🙂 ok derek, I was yanking your chain on this one. I should’ve said I was joking with you on the first statement. Let me see what I can do to set you up with a beautiful “HOTTTT” vixen.
The lady doth protest too much ….. just kidding!!!!
“And I will admit awhile back I met this girl, a teacher, from sort of a working-class background … so I took her to the W Hotel’s Underbar on our first date to see how she’d handle it.”
Assuming someone from a “working class background” would not be comfortable at a classy bar is a little offensive.
I agree that I probably wouldn’t be comfortable being taken to a gay bar on one of the first few dates – I’d only go with someone I knew really well, just to see what it was like. But that’s not why I reacted that way. I probably would not fit a lot of your criteria, but I still think some of them are fine for you. (I’m not “uninhibited”, but you are, and you definitely should seek someone else who is.) However, I just think that you have to understand that girls, in their dating experiences, have had to deal with a lot of closeted cases. It’s a health risk too – that’s how straight girls get AIDS. I’d go to see Brokeback Mountain on a date in a second; I’m not afraid of gay men or gay women or the arts…I’m just afraid of dating a straight man who is into men. Even a little bit.
If you really are that free-wheeling, though, then test away. At least they know what they’re getting and that they’re not dealing with a guy who’s shy.
It wasn’t so much of her background as much as who she was and how she presented herself. I just wanted to know how comfortable she’d be in a different setting.
“A Girl”, I believe the health risks of AIDS are spread by ALL types of people. There is a level of promiscuity on ALL types of people. Please don’t single one out.
Back to the main point , I think Derek should stop taking his dates in different settings to “test” out the dates. Dating is not about testing on one’s comfort level, but communication.
Talk, talk talk and Listen listen listen!
Hamptons, please no political correctness here. Yes straight girls can get AIDS any number of ways, but having sex with bisexual men is far riskier than straight guys.
Thanks, Derek!
And that’s pretty much what I meant.
Interesting to flip this scenario around, because I think that guys — or guys that I’ve dated — may be more open-minded.
I used to own a restaurant with two gay male friends, and their friend ran a gay bar next to us. I’ve had many first or second-date drinks in that bar, at my suggestion. It’s a great place with an amazing atmosphere, and excellent food.
I have never gotten an awkward reaction from taking a date to a gay bar. Normally, we laugh and drink and talk to people as if we were any ol’ where. And if anything, the date is hopeful that I’m bi (which I’m not) so he can live out some longtime threesome fantasy …
Is it a test? Call it what you want, but dating is testing to some degree. I want to see if he’s comfortable in his own skin, in a variety of situations.
Derek, You are very right to take dates to gay bars, and I think you should do it far more often.
The homophobia exhibited by these women posting here shows that there are a lot of people who are really clueless… and so stuck on themselves that they don’t know how to go someplace where they can relax and have a good time. A gay bar is such a place. Any woman who EVER worries about that is too clueless or self-absorbed to waste your time on.
I have a Chinese friend who took his Appalachian girlfriend to gay bars and they enjoyed them so much they stopped going any place else but gay bars. Why go to a boring, negative place when you can go to a fun, positive place? They have been happily married for 15 years now, with kids, and they still go out for an ocassional night out at a gay club when responsibilities permit them to do so.
Any straight woman who quibbles about going to a gay bar is bad news. You would be very justified in looking askance at any straight woman who has a problem with going out for light-hearted fun at a gay bar.
I betcha that Chinese friend of yours wouldn’t mind getting it up the bum (sorry I couldn’t resist … really, sorry…)