Okay, via via Gawker, there was this big blog contretemps today over this Forbes article headlined, “Don’t Marry Career Women.” Forbes has taken the piece down, which is kinda craven and stupid, because really, you can’t run a piece like that and NOT expect a lot of reaction. The full text is cached here but here are some choice bits:
Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don’t marry a woman with a career.
Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women–even those with a “feminist” outlook–are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.
Not a happy conclusion, especially given that many men, particularly successful men, are attracted to women with similar goals and aspirations. And why not? After all, your typical career girl is well-educated, ambitious, informed and engaged. All seemingly good things, right? Sure…at least until you get married. Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you. Sound familiar?
The article was accompanied by a graphic, “Nine Reasons Not to Marry Career Women.” (No. 6: “Your house will be dirtier.”)
Personally, I must admit I thought the article was pretty funny, but I’m very hard to offend. You can find outraged feminist reaction here on Feministe, but I actually found it a bit shrill and unconvincing. The Forbes author, Michael Noer, cites a host of studies, while Feministe cites none. (There’s a better response here)
Which is not to say I agree with Noer. Virtually everyone I’ve ever dated has been a “career woman,” which which the article defines simply as college-educated women earning over $30,000 and working more than 35 hours a week. I must say I’ve always been most interested in girls with good careers — particularly journalists who share my love of the news and world affairs. I must admit that if a potential mate doesn’t have a good career that’s generally been a mental strike against her. Noer does point out the downside of that, like hours spent in the office that won’t be spent with you.
Actually the points I thought were most interesting were No. 7 and 8, where Noer says both husband and wife will be less satisfied with the marriage if the wife earns more than the husband.
“Married men’s well-being is significantly lower when married women’s proportional contributions to the total family income are increased” … “American wives, even wives who hold more feminist views about working women and the division of household tasks, are typically happier when their husband earns 68% or more of the household income.” Reason? “Husbands who are successful breadwinners probably give their wives the opportunity to make more choices about work and family–e.g., working part-time, staying home, or pursuing a meaningful but not particularly remunerative job.”
I must say, I’ve gone out on a couple of dates with girls who clearly made significantly more than me … like this one corporate lawyer from a few years back, or this Goldman Sachs trader I met running in the park. Neither progressed past a third date, for whatever reason, but the difference in our wages I think had nothing to do with that. But while that wage differential didn’t stop me from pursuing those girls, it was a little nagging worry in the back of my head: how much do I have to offer them?
Anyway, unlike many Forbes readers, I think I’d have a hard time marrying a woman without a career while maintaining my current lifestyle. But I’m curious what the guys here with a strong six-figure salary think: would you rather marry your co-worker, or your secretary?
UPDATE 8/24: The article is back online with a side-by-side rebuttal. Slate’s Jack Shafer has a penetrating critique here.
Can’t wait to read the comments from the guys on this one . . .
The author is really only saying that career women can be real pills. This is not news.
Yeah, Mofo, whereas high-powered career men are all so sensitive, kind, and in touch with their feelings. Double standard much?
Well, you tell me, Ali. I don’t recall saying anywhere in my post that career men are walks in the park. But, assuming you’re a career woman, thank you for proving my point.
I think that whole notion is too silly to comment on. Most women after the age of 25 are going to be earning more than $30,000 per year, and if it’s something they enjoy doing, that doesn’t make them harder to date. Plus, it gives them something to talk about on a date.
Unless our parents are taking care of us, we still have to pay the rent, so it might as well be doing something we like.
I’ve heard about women not wanting to date men who earn less than them, and men being intimidated by women who have careers, and I say to both sexes: It’s hard enough to find someone you like without putting weird parameters on it like that.
If I’d had a family at 25, I’d have stayed home to take care of the kids. But I haven’t had kids yet, so I might as well work.
No, Mofo, you didn’t explicitly say ANYTHING about career men. That’s my point–you only bothered to mention what pills professional (read: uppity) women can be.
Similarly, the original Forbes article warned against marrying professional women when it could have just as easily advised against marrying professional men (see Jack Shafer’s critique that Derek so kindly linked to for further explication of this fact).
Alizinha — that is very true, Noer’s article was definitely written by a guy for career guys. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that per se, but it was weird for it to be published in Forbes rather than a men’s magazine.
Personally, I’d love to date a woman who makes more than me. Ideally by winning the lottery, but I’ll take a working stiff too.
I have to say, no matter how good this theoretical future wife’s career is, I’d still want her to take a strong role in child rearing. I think that is one of the reasons why we get married (to have children and to raise them right) and I don’t think it is acceptable to farm that off on third world labor help. Unfortuneately, it is very hard for women to be involved in child rearing and to continue to do demanding jobs. And the main reason to continue to work is to make money. I think that reason gets less compelling when the guy is making over $100K. That will cover the basics.
I’m sure there are plenty of women who would rather take care of their kids, if they had them, than work. Each woman is different.
hello, this is a hot topic due to the fact that with the inflational economy we currently have it stands to reason that women need to work. Within the working environment, we realize that taking classes here and there will pay off very soon, so we do this and become career woman dying to be loved and to love forever and ever!!
i dont think carrier women are that bad,because whatever problem that exist in the home I believe is that of the inability of the man to have total control of the woman.so for me I think it is a complex problem on the part of most men
I married a self employed career woman 2 years ago. She cancelled the honeymoon, too busy at the office. She talks about the office 24/7 if there is 1 minute inbetween for us on weekends she is sleeping. I am a self made multimillionaire and we dont need her money. She is so consumed with her company we have no life. If she takes anytime off she is on the cel phone all day. She promised things would change but they have only gotten worse. Her health is going down hill. I am so unhappy even though I still love her which makes it even worse. Do yourself a favor and take a poor girl that wants to be with you. Career women are errogant, sarcastic,selfish,poor house keepers, bad cooks, hate sex, and are only interested in themselves and their career. DONT MARRY ONE!!!!
IM NOT errogant, sarcastic,selfish,poor house keepers, bad cooks, hate sex, and are NOT interested in myself and any career. MARRY ME!!!!
A career woman are the Worst of all women to get involved with because of their Greed And Selfishness that they carry around with them wherever they go since they do cause more Divorces which is a known fact.
They’re absolutely the Worst of all women to get involved with. Stay clear.
Career women have Ruined many of us Good men already and will continue to do so since they’re so very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, and so very money hungry all the time since they really do cause Most marriages to fail Unfortunately. Been there and done that.
Most women that have a Career today have Broken Up many Good marriages already Unfortunately do to their Greed And Selfishness that they carry around with them Everywhere they go which certainly has a lot to do with the Divorce Rate being so very high nowadays. And it is very sad that many of these women will Choose their Career over their families.
Career women think they are “all that”. They’re arrogance & their pride is one of the many reasons they are unhappy.
Career woman: “I make 6 figures a years”
Bitch, I don’t care.
Career women think they are “all that”. They’re arrogance & their pride is one of the many reasons men like myself don’t date them.
Nothing wrong with having a career, but good luck trying to balance that with a family & children. If you’re too career oriented, you won’t have time for family. Which is why I never date them.
Unless you are one of those types of women can manage a career while taking care of a family, then I ain’t interested.