Here is a little question for the interwebs. So I was dumped last Sunday, right? (But just from a little six-week thing). Decided to reactivate my online dating profile. (But I may not even bother with it as I met a girl at this party Wednesday and had a great time with her Friday … yes I love being a guy and dating in this city. But that is a whole ‘nother story that I won’t get into here).
Anyway, so I earlier in the week I was browsing profiles on the site when this one caught my eye. A banker who is into all kinds of outdoor adventures and spontaneity. The thing I thought was interesting was, under what she’s looking for in a relationship, she just lists that it doesn’t involve guys who describe themselves as “sensual” or post topless photos of themselves. Both, she says, “rank high in ick factor.” Now, I get the “sensual” thing — that’s almost like you’re trying to say you’re good in bed.
But topless photos, by a guy? I’ve actually read several girls say on their online dating profiles that topless photos are a big turn-off too, so I don’t think this is an isolated opinion. So that is my question for my readers in my never-ending quest to understand the female gender. Why is this? I would welcome bikini shots of a girl. And show off their cleavage on their profile pictures. You are trying to promote yourself online, right? Girls do actually, y’know, tend to like defined muscles — not that I am ripped or anything, but I do work out regularly; I’m fairly proud of my body and the work I’ve put into it. My last serious girlfriend really liked my biceps. And really, like 95% of other guys, I’m not shy about taking off my shirt at the beach or sunbathing. So why do girls think that a guy posting a topless photo of himself — say, a beach picy — would be icky? (Obv., I have no intent of doing so, since it would clearly be counterproductive).
First, because most men don’t look good topless. Second, because it implies a certain degree of intimacy that’s forced upon them– women don’t like intimacy forced upon them.
Example: my cousin and a few of her girlfriends were once talking about Playgirl magazine, and how gross it is to see photos of naked men. My cousin: ‘If the man is my boyfriend, then absolutely I want to see him naked. But if he’s someone I don’t know, I don’t want to see his weenie. Weenies are gross to look at. It’s only when the weenie belongs to *my* man that I like looking at it.’
Same principle, different body part.
I don’t buy that. I mean, first, the guys who would be tempted to post a shirtless pic probably do look good topless. And second, ask your cousin whether she oogles, say, the USA swim team or some of the water polo guys in the Olympics. Like check out some of the Olympics coverage on Jezebel where the girls are basically just saying, “yum.” (Which is totally cool, of course). I mean, weenuses are not a very attractive body part, absolutely. But abs and biceps are, or can be. And as far as intimacy goes, I don’t think you can compare a weenus and a torso. I was shirtless on the sundeck this weekend, sunning myself in front of various ladies in bikinis. But I’d never whip out my unit on the deck, or in public…
>>the guys who would be tempted to post a shirtless pic probably do look good topless.
Wrong. The guys tempted to post a shirtless pic *think* they probably look good topless. Long ago I realized that women have very different ideas of what looks good, and usually their instincts are right
I think the main point is that to a certain extent it is irrelevant to most women if a guy has a “good” body or a “great” body. Most of the topless guys have really ripped bodies. They think they are putting out something special, but really only gay guys get that worked up about a random set of six pack abs. For most women, it starts with being attracted to other aspects of a man, then if he has a flat stomach on top of that, well that is nice. So when a guy leads with the six pack abs, women are wondering that guy thinks that is about as good as he gets. Does he think, for example, that his conversation skills aren’t going to be enough to carry the day just by themselves.
Now I have a picture of myself playing beach volleyball. It is an action shot of me spiking a volleyball, and it is from behind. I was at the time somewhat ripped and certainly very tan, and in the picture, from behind, since all the muscles are flexing from the spike, I look really ripped. When I’m doing online dating, I will sometimes send that picture after conversation has begun and only if it is in connection with some sort of athletic or volleyball related topic. However, I do not know if it hurts or helps my chances.
Yeah, I’ve actually had conversations before about how those shirtless shots in male personal ads are awful. The biggest problem is, they’re really narcissistic. We can probably get an idea of how you look without you needing to show off your guns & abs. Guys who talk too much about their abs or pecs are boring, and so are guys who go out of their way to show them to us in their ads. We’ll just think you’re in love with yourself and have little else to offer.
It’s also partly to what TM said – it’s not our top priority — personality is. Having to get half naked will make us think a guy is full of himself. A jerk with a great body is not going to get us.
But a beach shot is not a problem. the problem is posing like that in front of a camera, as if showing off. ewwww. if you make it look like you just happened to be captured on the beach, then ok.
Hmm, yet another post involving semi-naked guys. At least this time it is just your little brother.
Hmmm. I’ve been seriously running and biking for 20 years and have a great butt and legs, so I’ve been posting bottomless photos of myself– maybe that’s where I go wrong?
I think the topless posed shots come off as really narcissistic. If someone happens to catch you doing something where you’d normally be topless, like playing frisbee at the beach, OK. But if you are posing, showing off your abs and pecs, it seems like you are full of yourself. It also seems like you don’t value intimacy as much, if every girl who sees your ad sees you half-naked, rather than just a girl you’re really into.
Well, lots of girls see me half-naked — at the beach, in yoga class, sunbathing on my building’s deck…
I am only full of myself a little bit. Actually, I agree that posing would be really cheesy. But what this woman said was that any shirtless photos at all were bad. “Any manner of a topless photo” was her exact phrase.
Eh, that’s just an expression. But most of the ones I’ve seen HAVE been posed, not just caught playing on the beach, so I think that’s what she’s targeting. There are exceptions to every rule.
I think when she says “any manner” she means the manner displayed on some hilarious websites like this one:
http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/
For online dating, keep your shirt on, tell me about your activities/love of running, etc., and I can read between the lines and understand your body type. When we meet in person, I’ll be able to tell pretty quickly.
I think that certain things need to be learned as the relationship grows. As for the “I’m sensual” thing, sometimes its nice not to put all of your sexual chips up front. One of the best things about a new, budding relationship is finding out what makes your partner tick.
Yeah, JRM put it well.
I’ve thought about this further, and while I think I’m in v. good shape for a 36-year-old guy who works behind a computer … maybe not in such phenomenal shape that I need to be worrying about this so much.
Women are put off by a guy who appears to like his own body too much because, essentially, they wish to be admired physically. Also, an in-shape guy may make a woman feel self-conscious about her own body – perhaps she’s still trying to lose those “five extra pounds.” These athletic dudes may be more judgemental about her tiny, tiny flaws. But, above all, they give the impression that they are more interested in their own attributes than in HERS. That’s why it’s okay for a lady to wear a low-cut dress but not for a man to strip to the waist. If you look at the “men for men” section, you’ll see a lot of nearly-nude guys, obviously. No one has a problem with it.
Just thought I’d tell the truth for y’all.
no, it’s because we just don’t like guys who are full of themselves and worry about superficial nonsense so much instead of other things.
Like what should we be worried about, though? I mean I see working out as self-improvement. It’s not just about looking good (although that is important to me); there are also health benefits and just the self-satisfaction of challenging and pushing yourself.
What kind of hobbies do you have that are so meaningful you look down on working out as “superficial nonsense”? If you spend your free time volunteering with inner city children, then okay, I can see your point. But most people don’t do that.
When I first started going to the gym regularly, back in the mid-90s, it was definitely in an attempt to look good “for the ladies.” I don’t know if that is superficial or not. Finding a mate is an important thing for most people. (Of course I’ve found many other benefits to lifting weights as well.)
Before I started working out remember once I had asked a then-girlfriend what she’d like to see improved about me, and she def. brought up being a little more muscular. (I was maybe a little bit scrawny/flabby). And since I’ve been going to the gym regularly, I have gotten the odd compliment on my bod. (Like I said, I’m not claiming to be ripped or anything, but I do lift). My point is just that you’d have a hard time convincing me that ladies don’t appreciate guys being a little bit buff.
[…] so watch the video, it is like eight minutes long. It made me think of the woman who recently posted to my blog that being fit and working out was “superficial nonsense” … I direct her to […]
What the, just one? More please!