I am just back from the Mica Bar, where my best nyc friend Jon had his going-away party for his corporate law firm gig. (He’s switching firms). I had an interesting discussion with his ex-secretary, who at first I mistook for a partner — she’s very smart, but never developed her own career. Now she is 44 and has been trying for the past 18 months to get pregnant. I think she said she’s had five artificial inseminations and is going for her second in vitro fertilization. (had just had acupunture performed, which is somehow related to the fertility treatments).
If I remember correctly, she’s spent about $18,000 on all this. The next option would be using donor eggs, or adopting an infant — either of which would cost about $25,000, requiring a second mortgage on her Westchester condo. (Adopting a child from a troubled home would be free, she told me — but she wasn’t sure she could handle it if the kid started to get into trouble as a teenager, and she was in her 50s. But of course she realized there were no guarantees a kid she bore herself wouldn’t get into trouble)
Anyway, it was definitely a bar conversation that made me stop and think. I’m not 100% sure that I want to have kids. I mean, right now, at 33, I still feel too young and immature to be a father — but someday…? It’d be pretty lame to still be out carousing much into your 40s, I think.
Guys don’t have the same “biological clock” as women, but it doesn’t mean we’re not cognizant of it. It’s something I’ve devoted some thought to, actually. Though I never read it, the 2002 media hype over Sylvia Ann Hewlett’s book left a huge impression on me. I’m certainly aware that by our 30s, a woman’s “time” is in one huge respect more valuable than my own. I don’t want to be responsible for ruining someone’s life or them never having kids…
Anyway, in lighter news, I will note (with Jon’s permission) that he and the girl he’s been dating for a month or so got into a kind of “Mexican standoff” over the party. It was also her birthday party Thursday; she wanted him to come to the West Side to hang out with her and her friends, while Jon wanted her to come to the East Side to be him and with his friends. “She has a birthday every year!” he said – while he’s leaving a firm he’s worked at for six years.
Neither of them budged — so they both went home alone.
Interesting observation and I too was influenced by Hewlett’s book and frank take that women who think they can have it all are really just fooling themselves. The gal in the bar is proof positive.
Two somewhat pitiless questions for the 44-year-old legal secretary.
1) She wants to get pregnant. OK, so where is her husband?
2) Was she not in the room in seventh grade, when the sex ed instructor told the girls that by their mid-40s they’ll be nearing menopause and not likely to get pregnant?
Oh, wait– she *doesn’t have* a husband, or never *paid attention* to her ticking clock. Well, those were her choices. When you put career first, other things are put off. But just because they are put off, doesn’t mean they’ll be there later when you’re ready for them.
oh c’mon, don’t be mean. The point of this post was not to try to make you feel sorry for this woman. To answer your questions, I believe she is living with a guy. And she didn’t put her career first, she’s a legal secretary. (Although she makes more than a lot of journalists…)
Yes, Mofo, your responses are very mean, and they are of the type typically made by guys who have a lot of their own psychological issues with women. Women who are single into their 40s and want a kid probably decided that they didn’t want to have a kid with some guy they didn’t love or who didn’t really love them, so they have no choice but to have one on their own.
The thing about women putting their careers first is a myth that was made up by people who don’ like women having careers at all. Women work and pay their rent, and then they go out on dates at night and on weekends. If they don’t end up married, they keep working. Just like men do. They don’t have a choice, usually. Sometimes they do well at their jobs. Sometimes they get promoted. It doesn’t mean they turned down dates or marriage so they could make partner. Sometimes they are lucky enough to like their jobs, sure.
I’m sure some women do put motherhood aside for a job, but those specific women tend to acknowledge it and take responsibility for it.
What you are suggesting, Mofo, is that if a woman doesn’t find a guy she wants to marry by, say, 30, she should quit her job so that she’s not accused of having missed out because she was too into her career. That’s just stupid.
I’m sure she paid attention to her ticking clock, mofo, but when you go on dates with women, do you want them to ask you if you’re ready for kids? Do you want them to ask you how many to have? I’ll bet you’d get scared off in a jiffy, as many guys do.
There is a breed of asshole guy out there who thinks that the fact that women get to be 35 and are childless is some sort of “revenge.” Guys like you believe that all of these women intentionally turned down dates with throngs of sweet, nice guys for whatever reason. BULLSHIT. Some of them dated a lot and didn’t find anyone who was supportive and willing to be with them in a committed, loving relationship.
Men are single, too, but they don’t have to answer questions as to why they turned down a date with this or that girl. They just get to move on to the next. No one says, “But she was nice. Why didn’t you keep dating her?”
Mofo, clearly you are angry about some woman or other who didn’t date you. Well, if a woman just doesn’t feel comfortable enough to want to kiss you, date you, and possibly marry you, there can be a host of reasons. Just like there have probably been girls whom you wouldn’t have dated. Don’t sit there giggling like an asshole becuase a woman who is 44 wants to have a kid. You just sound like a dick.
If you are upset that she’s husbandless, maybe Derek can put you in touch with her.
Oh, yawn, MaryJane– your barrage of paragraphs here seem to indicate you’re the one rather sensitive to the opposite gender. I merely said that she had to keep her eye not just on *the* ball, but *all* the different balls life throws at you: career, spouse, children. Looks like she might not have done a terribly good job at that, and now she’s trying to play catch up. Perhaps I should have made the point more simply so you would understand it.
The woman in my life asked me if I wanted children on our second date. Why wouldn’t she? Wanting children is normal. I said yes, two or three, and I was pretty sure by the end of the second date that I’d be lucky to have them with her. That was seven months ago, and we both can’t wait to get started.
Anyway… you really should relax about men. Try accupuncture, this chick Derek knows seems to endorse it.
Mofo, show your statement to your wife.
“And now she’s trying to play catch up.”
Um, so?
So why are you so worried about whether she has a husband, or anything else? Why is it your place to be so “pitiless”? What made you so angry over this topic?? She is apparently trying something very difficult.
As Derek wrote, he wasn’t asking for pity. He was contemplating someone with an interesting set of issues.
And when he did, you quickly swooped in to make it seem like she was a bad person. And you used a bunch of brainless stereotypes. It’s okay if you’re not too intelligent, but acknowledge that. “She focused too much on her career, bla bla.”
I guess she should have maybe had a kid or two at 25 when she was single and poor just in case she didn’t meet a man. Although what do you know of her life?
If this woman you are dating really wants 2-3 kids, get off this website and go get started. Her own chances of conceiving get lower every day.
The whole “have it all” thing is also a bit unfair. Of course you can have a job, then take time off for kids. Those are only two things. The problem is, you can’t always control when both of them happen properly. Men are lucky that they don’t have to worry quite as much. But someone like Mofo gets hurt by women along the line and ends up woodpecking them to death in some sort of revenge.
“Oh, wait– she *doesn’t have* a husband, or never *paid attention* to her ticking clock.”
How do you know she didn’t have miscarriages in her 30s?
How do you know her husband didn’t die in the World Trade Center?
How did you know her longtime boyfriend didn’t suddenly leave her?
How do you know anything, and why are you so angry?
As someone above said, this is about more for you than one woman. Obviously you are angry about women *like* her for some reason.
So your potential wife wants kids. Maybe when you are trying and nothing happens, you’ll be sorry you were so angry at situations you didn’t understand.
That was seven months ago, and we both can’t wait to get started [having kids].
Folks, this is clearly an imposter mofo.
yes, is mofo even married? anyway, the bottom line, mofo, was you can say “yawn” all you want, but there was no reason for you to make all those assumptions about someone who, unlike men, knew she faced a few unpleasant choices (find a husband by a certain time or have a baby alone) that you don’t have to worry about. not something to blame her for, unless it’s really about something deeper.
I can’t believe she is 44. I would have guessed she was a well preserved 38. She looks pretty darn good for 44.
Well, not having had kids keeps a woman young. SO I guess there is a stroke of fairness… 😉
Out of curiosity, Mary Jane, can you tell me what women hurt me in my past so much? I don’t recall, but you seem to know quite a bit about my life. Please fill us in.
Oh I know a TON about your life, Mofo…do you want to know how?
Well, exactly the same way that you knew so much about the 44-year-old woman’s life, of course!
After all, you knew she didn’t lose her husband in the World Trade Center, or have someone she was once in a long-term relationship with walk out on her, or try to conceive in her 20s and failed, or go on a lot of dates and just not have it work out, or get into relationships that didn’t end in marriage, etc. etc…
You seemed to know an awful lot about HER. All 44 years of her life, in fact. You actually knew that she focused on her career and didn’t think about having babies at all.
If your answer is that you assumed it because you’ve dated women like her…well, I guess the women you’ve known give you the expertise and license to talk about any other woman who’s in a tough situation.
So that’s how I know so much about you. Now go watch more sit-coms and base your life on them. Be gone.
How funny. I just wrote a post related to this yesterday.
It was a short post, but the comments are interesting. I liked how your mom tried to pimp you out! Funny.
[…] TheMofo has been a little quiet lately, but I’m sure you all remember him. He is coming into town for the weekend (from Boston) and I am throwing a party in his honor at Perdition tonight. To get the story behind the story you’ll have to attend, unless he wants to reveal it in the comments. Seriously, everyone here is welcome. I’ll be there from 9 p.m. on. […]