There was some discussion on this blog lately about dating and luck. However I do not really believe in luck when it comes to dating. Why? Because I am a guy, I have to make my own luck.
Guys and girls really have very different experiences on this front I think.
For example, when I first started dating one ex-girlfriend I asked her if she only seriously dated guys of her own religion. “Oh no,” she said. “Anyone who pays attention to me.”
That is really most girls’ experience in a nutshell. To be successful at dating yes they have to expend an awful lot of effort going to the gym, dressing well and looking good. But then it is just a question of who ends up pursuing them.1
For guys you need to be actually on the pursuit — and risking rejection. And let me tell you: when I am rejected I never blame it on “luck.” When the cute British intern is busy twice in a row when I ask her to lunch, when the gorgeous actress I met at a Coppersmith’s with Tallman doesn’t return my calls, that is not because I am “unlucky.” It is because I wasn’t charming enough, wasn’t interesting enough, wasn’t handsome enough, or just hadn’t spent enough time at the gym.
And when I do decide to pursue a girl, it is not because she is “lucky,” it is that I’ve seen something in her. (Not that I am oh-such-a-great catch, but a) I think I could make the right girl happy and b) I’m sure this holds true even for New York’s most eligible bachelors)
Basically as a guy you get instant feedback in the form of rejection, so it’s hard to blame that on “luck.” But women do not typically know when they are being rejected, when a guy gives them a second glance but then decides not to ask them for a phone number. Yes there are times when girls are rejected and know it — like when a guy gets a number and then never calls — but they are far more frequent for men.
Also I think blaming one’s lack of success in the dating realm on “luck” is a cop-out. It obviates the need to take responsibility for one’s love-life. I mean, let’s face it: there’s many things “wrong” with each and every one of us. All of us have flaws and could use some self-improvement. After S. and I broke up, I spent a lot of money on new clothes, spent more time at the gym, moved back into the city and tried to be less of a slob. (still working on that last one, but improvements have been made). I know I have other flaws to work on, like being more considerate of others. And all of us could probably stand improvements in our “game” when it comes to meeting the opposite sex. (or the same sex, for those who swing that way).
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1 Okay yes some girls do ask guys out, but not too many, I think I’ve been asked out twice in my life.
I think that when I, personally, say that some of dating has to do with “luck,” I am not referring to what happens after you’ve actually met someone you want to pursue. I am referring to whether you actually come into contact with the right person, at the right time. Often, people meet the right person due to timing and luck. Think of how your married friends met. If they’d gone to a different college, or hadn’t been on that train that night, they wouldn’t have met. If you meet a woman who seems great for you, but she just started dating someone last month after five years of being single, that’s bad luck. If get a job and it turns out your office only has married people, that’s bad luck.
People should take responsibility over their dating problems and make themselves as attractive and considerate as possible, true. But beyond that, you have to put yourself in situations where you meet the right person for you, and sometimes it still doesn’t happen.
Some people are able to meet a great range of people they could be happy with. Those are the people, coincidentally, for whom internet dating also works. So for them, it’s not so hard. If you are a more complex person, sometimes it is harder for you to meet the right person, even if you are trying your best.
Regarding my married friends, sure of course there’s an element of chance to how they met. But take my friend Dylan: before he met Phoebe he was doing a lot of dating. And it wasn’t “luck” that got him a date with her, he actually took the initiative and asked her out (on Friendster!). And the reason why he asked her out wasn’t that she was “lucky,” she had qualities that he liked. I’m sure being in great shape was part of it.
Yes, I know there are people with great qualities who still can’t seem to find a mate. But I can state confidentally that no matter how great they are, there is still room for improvement. And I’m sure their flirting techniques could use some work too. There really are no perfect people out there.
And really there are hundreds of thousands of eligible single people in this city, there are opportunities for meeting people every day. Working with married people isn’t a good excuse for not meeting someone.
I’m not trying to make anyone feel bad here about themselves, just inspire people to be better…
Surely there is still some luck involved, just in being in the same place at the same time as someone you are or could potentially be attracted to… Maybe less so with online dating as you can actively search for qualities you find attractive. I would probably have never met Jenny if I hadn’t been ‘lucky’ enough to have worked at the same Mountain as she did in Aspen, and my working there was more or less random. In fact we would have probably never ended up having more than a working relationship if we hadn’t happened to both go to this one party.
I disagree that internet dating is best for people who would be happy with a great range of people. It is good method for people who would make a lot of people happy, because then they face less rejection using the internet. But since it allows the meeting of so many people (and the sorting of them for things like education level, height, weight, haircolor), you would think it would be a good method for the very picky (or at least those picky on superficial levels).
jeez, whatever happened to accepting people as they are, flaws and all? we are all not genetically programmed to be stick-thin supermodels…
evan-i’m with ya.
L – I am not thinking solely about weight as the total package. Maybe if someone is shy they need to work on being more outgoing, maybe if someone is bitchy they need to be a bit more friendly, maybe if someone is boring they need start to reading more newspapers and magazines.
But yes, if someone is overweight then losing weight is certainly something they can do to to attract more people. (Personally I think you look great L, you’re very fit and I bet have a very low body-fat ratio.). Or whatever, they can also sit around and wait to “get lucky” and find someone who is into dating overweight people. Whatever they want to get out of life, I guess.
Sure it would be nice to find someone who will accept us for our flaws. But even when we are married or whatever we should still be striving for self-improvement, to be better people. (I am talking about genuine flaws, not being a “stick-thin supermodel” is not a flaw).
Evan – But weren’t there reasons you started talking to Jenny that had nothing to do with her being “lucky?”
Also for those of us in NYC – we’re surrounded by people. I bet all of us have walked past or sat in a subway car with someone who could have been the man or woman of our dreams, and just didn’t talk to them.
“When the cute British intern is busy twice in a row when I ask her to lunch, when the gorgeous actress I met at a Coppersmith’s with Tallman doesn’t return my calls, that is not because I am “unlucky.” It is because I wasn’t charming enough, wasn’t interesting enough, wasn’t handsome enough, or just hadn’t spent enough time at the gym.”
That’s crap, Derek. It could be because SHE didn’t find you attractive/interesting/charming/whatever, but it doesn’t mean you AREN’T attractive/interesting/charming/whatever. Who wants to be with someone who doesn’t like them the way they are? Not me, I’ll tell you that much.
And even with someone who does find you to be attractive/interesting/charming/whatever, I think there is an element of luck that folks have commented on here — timing. You might meet someone wonderful the day before you move across the country, the night after you’ve decided to date someone else exclusively, or at a point in your life when you’re ridiculously busy with work and barely have enough time to sleep, let alone date.
That said, it doesn’t hurt to be more proactive when it comes to one’s own love life. You’ve got to put yourself out there to get results. We all have room for self-improvement to some degree, but being outgoing, confident, comfortable with who you are and where you are in your life is much more attractive (as a package) than being super-fit and well dressed.
Let’s put it this way Laren – I am not saying I am not the most interesting guy ever. (I am, in fact!) However, you can always be a better flirt. If you meet someone (particularly at bar, club or a party) generally you only have so much time to be engaging and charming. Sometimes I am, sometimes I put my foot in my mouth. It happens.
(See, this is the difference in the female vs. male perspective on dating. As a guy at some pick-up joint I am doing the initiating, the trying to get the number… while the girl is simply just screening, deciding on whether or not I am worthy of it).
In September 1999, I met a woman at a wedding. We spent three days in close company, ended up spending the last night together– and then went back to our respective homes, 300 miles apart. We kept in touch, saw each other briefly in October, still kept in touch, and realized we felt very connected to each other. We decided to spend a weekend together in January and see what happened.
Lo and behold, I had a work crisis and had to push things back one additional week. That weekend we originally planned to meet, she met the man who would later be her husband– and I met the woman I later nearly married. The woman and I never saw each other again. But I hear she’s not terribly happy in her marriage, and I never did marry the other woman I met.
If my computer server hadn’t broken down that particular Thursday, I would have gone to see her. What may have happened, I’ll never know– but that’s how luck plays a role in relationships.
This wasn’t the bridesmaid from your sister’s wedding, was it????
Yeah I think everyone misses individual opportunities to meet “the one” — gosh I know that I have, because of timing or whatnot. But I think that there are lots of people out there for anyone, that they don’t come across just once every five years or whatever. At least I hope not! And I say this as someone who likes to think he’s pretty picky.
No, the one at my sister’s wedding was a skank.
Derek. You need to get lucky.
This is the last time I’m chiming in (thought you were giving up the dating posts anyway, Derek) because whenever you write about women, I sit here rolling my eyes because you make so many assumptions about the gender and then hold those assumptions up as gospel. For instance: “Women typically don’t know when they’re being rejected.” Really. And the piece about women dating whomever asks them out — that’s most of our experiences in a nutshell???? Where do you get the information you base these proclamations on?
The other thing that you seem so completely hung up on is looks. It seems to be your number one criteria; correct me if I’m wrong.
As NYFlygirl told you, if you don’t know the backstory, don’t judge. The implication that if a person claims she’s unlucky in love, then she’s probably not being proactive…you don’t know the backstory. Enough said.
Totally inappropriate asking interns out, I think. You’re a quasi-superior, no? Anyway, just my thought. I rememeber my intern days and if someone on staff had asked me out, I would be totally uncomfortable. Like totally. What do the other girls on here think about asking out the British intern? And twice at that. Wrong or right?
Kath, yup, I readily admit that looks are v. important to me. I dunno if I’d say they’re the No. 1 criterion though, there’s several that are “must haves.”
My point about rejection was just that girls don’t know when a guy considers asking you out and then doesn’t. How would you know that?
And where did I write that girls date whomever ask them out? I also didn’t say anything about being proactive, I simply said that everyone could use a little self-improvement.
ariana – I am not anyone’s quasi-superior, not at all. I think lunch dates are different than real dates, were’re talking about grabbing grub somewhere during working hours. I am not even admitting asking anyone for lunch, that might have been a hypothetical example. However I want to stipulate that if there was an intern (I’m not admitting that either) she was like 26 or 27.
Kath,
Responses like yours serve generally to squash debate. In a short blog entry Derek can’t caveat every sentence he writes with “not always the case” or “this is just a generalization and it does not apply to everyone”. So you shouldn’t attack him as if he is making some grand pronouncements about all women when he mentions a few social generalities.
I will agree that he is really talking about the pick-up scene, and he shouldn’t generalize that to women, since I suspect that a lot of women don’t meet their dates on the pick-up scene. But in those instances, often, the guy makes the first move. True it may be a move spurred on by a come hither glance, but if that move isn’t made after the glance, it is true the woman in question won’t really know if she is being rejected or if her glance was missed. But the guy who goes over to a girl and tries to chat her up and how gets a dismissive waive of the hand for his troubles (I watched that happen to my very attractive buddy last week), he certainly knows when he has been rejected.
But the point is that you make your own luck by going up to people and talking to them. Or by making yourself more desireable so that people come up and talk to you (or so you don’t get the “hand” when you go up and talk to someone else.) So on every individual encounter there is luck involved in who is standing next to who and who is at which party. (My parent’s met on a plane to Paris and they would never have talked if the plane hadn’t been delayed and they would never have gotten together if they hadn’t both attended the same play while in Paris and randomly met there. That is luck, but Pops was making his own luck because he was coming out of the play and Mom was going in and he decided to watch the play again so he could chat with her.) But over the course of your life, the luck aspect evens out and it is really you who control your own fate.
And since I know Derek and have met most of the women he has dated, I can tell you that his number one criteria is intelligence. He never dates women of even average intelligence. They are always pretty smart.
Dude. Do not destroy my carefully-cultivated shallow guy persona. They are always pretty hot, too.
I think guys have a little more control in who goes out with them, than women do. A guy who is charming and listens to a girl, really pays attention to her personality, will go far.
With girls, charm will not help as much in getting a guy.
Tallman, thinking about this a little more — does what I say really just apply to the pick-up scene? I would have to say that all of my past relationships (and 98% of my dates) have come because I took the initiative and asked the girl out or made a move. It doesn’t matter whether I knew the girl from college, from work, from a social group — it was still up to me to take the first step. Yes sometimes a girl did signal her interest by flirting or whatever, but that is very safe. I would not really think of it as a rejection if I flirted with someone and the evening ended without them asking me out.
I know yes I am generalizing from my own experience and other people may have it differently. Tallman, for example, seems to have girls constantly throwing themselves at him, like this one cutie who recently begged him to take her number. I must say however that does not really happen to me, or if it does it is pretty rare.
I completely agree. More later. Check out this story —
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060814/us_nm/life_charm_dc
Now who is generalizing! I feel whether a girl gets to choose or not depends on large part on how (wait for it) fun and attractive she is.
I can’t speak for all guys, of course, but I would much rather date a girl who will dance with me on a table than one who listens to me and really “pays attention to my personality.”
Derek,
Yes you eventually have to make a move to ask the girl out in most cases. But I think for a lot of people they don’t meet their dates in such a quick fashion. Often there is some existing relationship, like a co-worker who they work and interact with for a while before meetings for lunch turns into a date on Saturday night. In that instance, I don’t think the woman is waiting or taking a passive role. In college, one often became friends with a girl in your class before eventually it becomes a date. (I used to do math homework with a young lady before we started dating. We even did the homework in bed together while our relationship was still platonic. I had to make the first move in some way, but she was certainly not a passive participant.)
There are certainly situations where the guy makes the move, but sometimes the woman has sent so many singles that there is no way this move is any sort of a stretch for the guy. In that case, the woman has effectively already asked the guy to ask her out. So really the first move has been made by her.
I think that many dating relationships grow out of some sort of organic existing platonic relationship. I don’t think those are really the same as the situation of sautering over to the bar to throw a little “game” at a girl who has caught your eye. Both are fine ways to meet someone, but the second way is the more traditional guy scans room and picks out girl that he is interested in and thinks he has a chance with.
There are a number of things I wanted to respond to here. Girls often do ask men out, at least I did all through college, etc. up until I got married. In fact, the person I married was so incredibly shy that if I hadn’t asked him out, we never would have dated.
Maybe it was because I have too many brothers? I recall being rejected on occasion. Guess that’s what it feels like for guys.
As for looks, you do seem a bit preoccupied with that, D. But I guess that’s a male thing. I tend to look at someone’s attractiveness more from their qualities. Like if they’re funny. Or like to joke and appreciate humor in everday things. There’s a guy in my office who’s bald, older, probably slightly bad teeth, but for the life of me he’s attractive because he’s got such a great sense of humor. (He’s happily married, by the way.)
It’s interesting to think about, mostly because I was at a training thing a weekend ago and this man started paying attention to me. He helped me up after I was sitting on the ground. Obviously paying attention. Not used to that, but when the end of the program came around, he asked for my phone number (horribly awkward few minute ensues.) He’s obviously “out there” looking for someone and playing the odds. If you invite enough women out, something’s bound to work, right?
It is a bit nicer just to sit back and wait for someone to pay attention to you. Then you can decide, yes or no.
i think besides luck and “trying to be perfect” or self-improvement or what not, there are still a coupla more factors in the whole dating equation:
chemistry-yeah, maybe you meet someone that may be absolutely perfect for you on paper, but when first meeting, or after a coupla dates, there is no chemistry there. this isn’t something that can be forced, or something that can be controlled…
compatibility-sometimes 2 people, no matter how attracted they are to each other at the beginning, are too incompatible to really make things work in the long run!! this has nothing to do with “self-improvement,” it may be 2 people who are already great as is, but maybe, for example, live very different lifestyles (one super-active and athletic, one not.)
and I completely agree with what Laren said about “Who wants to be with someone who doesn’t like them the way they are? Not me…” I’d absolutely love it if a guy would like me for me, and not treat me like a little makeover project or something…
Tallman – good points.
Flygirl – Well I certainly agree you shouldn’t try to change someone, you either have to accept them (flaws and all) for who they are … or reject them for who they are. That is one reason why it is always good to try and work on one’s shortcomings, you improve your chances. Or you can just wait to “get lucky” I guess.
It’s not really a question of trying to be perfect, just trying to be better.
Frankly, I don’t know that I’d want to be with someone who didn’t strive to improve, being a better person seems a bit more important than being a better lawyer or a better runner or a better banker. Easier said than done, I know, I definitely have a lot to work on!
(Incidentally, I know when my friend Dylan was single, he def. wanted someone who would push him to be better. And he was already one of the most driven guys I know. Frankly I probably could use someone to “smooth over my rough edges” too)
Kate – Yeah, all kidding aside, I actually don’t think I’m any more preoccupied by looks than any other red-blooded American male. Some of the comments here seem a little naive, this is just something that guys place a premium on, we’re very visual. And frankly it’s been my experience that most pretty girls care a lot about looks too, although you are definitely an exception to that rule. 😉
Kath – if you really think Derek’s so bad (he’s not), you should see some of the other guys who write about dating in the blogosphere. They make you want to hide in your closet and never come out. Their entries are all, “Hey, bitches, if you want to get a guy, learn to give good head already, and stop shoving Big Macs into your body.” I mean, really.
ok, but shouldn’t “striving to improve” come from one’s self and not from a mate? and no matter how much someone can try and improve one’s self, there may only be so much one can do, nobody’s perfect.
and did you even bother reading the rest of my comment? the fact that there are factors in this complicated dating equation that no amount of “self-improvement” can control or change?
A random girl, just to keep things in perspective, I’ve read similarly needy stuff on women’s blogs (perhaps not about sex, but about requiring men to be mind-readers, which we’re not). This is where communication is important.
Perhaps relationships are complicated because we as people make them that way? Just a thought.
Let’s face it. Although we all are afraid to admit it as well as sounding superficial, Physical attraction in terms of built, height, weight is definitely very important in choosing a mate.
Usually people who look into “other” characteristics beyond physical attraction is because they just don’t “have it”. They could be short, overweight or just simply not hot enough. Since they are out of the league in the dating pool, they look for other characteristics that are “attractive” and accept the flaws.
Derek should be applauded in admitting that looks are important to him.
Flygirl, I think we are talking past each other … or maybe I am just not explaining myself well? Yes of course striving to be better should come from oneself, although it never hurts to have encouragement.
And yes I did read the rest of your comments. They bolster my point, actually. People with whom you have chemistry and compatibility are sorta rare, yes, all the more reason to work on self-improvement. You don’t want to find a person who could be that special someone and have him or her dismiss you because you talk with your mouth full, are 15 pounds overweight or were checking out the hot waitress.
All I’m saying is, if you are boring or bitchy or lazy or overweight or self-absorbed or slovenly or really arrogant or really immature or shy or emotionally unavailable or self-righteous or rude or inconsiderate or pompous or vapid or messy or a poor dresser or bossy or what have you, self-improvement is a much better strategy than a) whining about how terrible the opposite sex is; b) complaining how “tough” it is to date in NYC; or c) talking about how bad one’s “luck” is. Really, this is such an obvious point, I don’t know why you are fighting me on it.
There are a more than a few people who should memorize that last paragraph. Male bloggers included! (OK, some female bloggers too, perhaps.)
To the women who are always complaining and whining, that is the pure reason why you are still single! Men are simple creatures as they have no desire to be with a partner of a complex persona. To the complainers, you should look at yourself in the mirror and repeat: ” I am no Jessica Alba, I am me”. You may think your standards are high, but other people don’t think so. Instead of complaining, do something about it. This is 2007, not the 1900’s dating world where you expect to be pursued. Work it girl!
Does anyone here really believe in luck as anything other than a figure of speech? Like having rabbit’s feet, or thinking that wearing a moldy pair of underwear can help your team do well, or that a person can actually be “unlucky.” (Or that the Red Sox were actually “cursed,” rather than making a series of racist decisions in the ‘.40s and ’50s?)
I mean, seriously, it’s like believing in ghosts, fairies and leprechauns. There’s chance and probability, but there’s no such thing as luck. Believing you are “unlucky” is actually negative thinking, and guess what folks? NEGATIVITY IS UNATTRACTIVE. And it really doesn’t help your confidence either.
Off topic, but I saw you on this week’s episode of “Tabloid Wars”! The scene when the reporter comes back to the office from playing “Assassin.”
I think luck is usually used here as a figure of speech, not to mean there is anything supernatural going on or that some people are helped by supernatural forces. I think a better term might be “circumstance not wholly in an individual’s own control, and sometimes negative,” but that’s long.
Negativity is not always unattractive, if it’s used in a humorous way. Talking on a date about past bad dates, if you are not mean about them and you take some responsibility, can be quite funny. So can cumudgeonliness to a certain point. Haven’t you ever had fantasies about dating Andy Rooney? I know you have.
Wrong CL. Negativitiy is ALWAYS Unattractive. Dwelling the past “failures” is a sign of insecurity and lack of confidence. If you are confident in yourself, you should not be blaming it on luck. You have to evaluate yourself and understand why men don’t call you again or simply guys won’t approach you.
I’m engaged but the only person the “undateable” can blame is his/herself. Do something about it, be flirty, give winks, flip your hair, be a tease, laugh, and most of all smile! Anything that works for you! If you are just going to sit there and wait and act like you are some miss thang, sorry honey, because that ain’t working!
Wrong, Tonya. You missed the point.
Of course whining etc. is unattractive. So is “dwelling.” But if you read my post again, you’ll see that I advocated neither.
I advocated having a sense of humor, and sometimes, having a cynical attitude is funny. Perhaps you are a Brittney Spears type of partygirl, in which case, you might not find the neurotic, funny type of guy attractive, but some of us still do.
I advocated having a sense of humor, and I’ve met men who complain about bad dates just as much as women do. And it’s funny – as long as they don’t blame the entire world for their problems.
I never said that it’s wrong to flirt or improve yourself. But your post is very negative. Meow!
Regarding your previous post, I have met just as many men who blame women for why they are single. Their big complaint is that the hot women act like princesses, and only average women have good personalities. So therefore, they are “stuck” with women who aren’t rail-thin and beautiful. Meanwhile, these God’s gifts to women don’t see anything wrong with their own attitude or try to improve themselves (and I don’t mean just by going to the gym).
Girls certainly shouldn’t whine or complain about every little thing. Neither should men.
I’m not perfect, and I can always do better. Both men and women can do better, and stop complaining about the whole of the other gender. THAT is what’s unattractive.
I was thinking about this a little more, and I’ve decided that my No. 1 criterion for dating — even more than intelligence or even attractiveness — is just a fun, sunny, upbeat, pleasant personality and a sense of spontaneity. Like S., she was not really someone who that I could really take table-dancing or who would close down a bar doing shots with me and my friends. But she was still just a really super happy-go-lucky, goofy type of girl who’d do thinks like go skipping through the airport when we went on trips.
In contrast, some of the people here and elsewhere on the Internet (both men and women) just seem really bitter, bitchy, negative and frankly unpleasant. I remember reading some of the comments on the This Fish blog — which I do enjoy and I like Heather as a person — but some of her commenteers! I just wanted to shake them and be like, “no wonder you’re single honey!”
I think those are very attractive and desirable qualities. Keep in mind that some of the stuff people write on blog comments don’t necessarily reflect who they are. If Tonya and I were talking in person, I probably would have responded to her in a more polite manner than I did here.
On the other hand, some of the people on the internet definitely could use an attitude adjustment.
I think your comments on S. show you to be a pretty level-headed and dateable guy. You look for the good in her, and found it because it was there to find.
Awww, it wasn’t like I was doing her a favor or anything … she was a great girl.
Piffft…fucken Bush League. Bitches are a dime a dozen, so please don’t get mad when I fcuk your cousin…I love that Too Short line. Internet dating isn’t dating…just like throwing a bunch of fish in a swimming pool and not feeding them for a week and then you throw a line in there and catch one isn’t really fishing….nuff said. Dude, it’s not luck, everyone makes there luck if you considering hooking up with someone luck. Take some time to get over your ex….the pain will stop sometime after a year…sure you will date, fuck, and suck some nice girls here and there, but the truth is that you need time to heal. Take care and keep your chin up when you are down on a girl…that’s the trick.
I hope I didn’t come across as hung up. I am not.
i’d just like to add that repeatedly emphasizing how much time women need to spend in the gym is an extremely unattractive trait. you’d better not say that often to women unless you want to turn them all OFF, skinny or no.
Who was talking just about women? I have several guy friends who I think could use more time in the gym. I could, too.
it doesn’t matter. as long as women are any part of your argument you are going to turn them off. you’re free to have your opinion, of course, i’m just giving you a tip. one of the reasons a guy might be rejected is because of saying something like that. see laren’s latest blog post for more detail. 🙂
Well, I hear what you are saying and I am sensitive to that, but I don’t think you can fairly characterize my point here as “women need to spend more time in the gym.” I do have slightly more class than that. I think I best summed up what I had to say in this gender-neutral response to Flygirl, working out and weight were only a very small part of my larger point about trying to improve oneself rather than complain. Most of what I had to say was about personality traits or bad habits.
I will say I started doing some (modest) strength training at age 25 and recommend it to anyone, I definitely think it has improved my confidence as well as my physique.
Regarding Laren’s post, I feel I drink too much beer to be considered “obsessed” with fitness or health. But y’know, I am a marathon runner (11 under my belt), fitness is definitely important to me, and it probably should be to the people I date as well.
Sorry ladies, I am going to side with rose. There is a reason why there’s so many women at my equinox these days. Maybe, they want to be healthy, but their main reason is purely for superficial reasons. They want to look good for the guys and their boyfriends. If all of you disagree with me, then fine, but it is the truth or at least partially. What’s so wrong about looking good and feeling good about yourself?
Since when did my comments come across as negative? I believe what I stated is straight to the point. I stand by my comments.
The point is if you have a few extra pounds, do something about it. If you don’t care, that is fine, but don’t come complaining why men don’t pay attention to you.
If you are complaining about luck in dating. Don’t blame the men, blame yourself because the problem lies within you! Do something about it and quit whining on the website.
“Perhaps you are a Brittney Spears type of partygirl, in which case, you might not find the neurotic, funny type of guy attractive, but some of us still do” – Thank you for assumptions. Your conclusion and response is very similar to pre-pubescent middle school student. But I am engaged to an incredible guy and I am a medical student thank you. Not too sure how you got that “Britney Spears” idea from.
Generally from MY experience, most women complain more than men. I suggest all of you to lighten up.
As far as internet dating goes- I think it is a feeble and coward attempt for the sociable-inept get yourself into the dating world. It is a wonderful world out there, go out!
Correct me if I am wrong, but Derek has every right to have one physical characteristics as one of the criteria in choosing a mate. So what if he likes “fitter” women? Maybe it is because he is a runner? (i think you are a runner) and that aligns to his goals and passion. That DOES not sound superficial to me.
Not everyone should strive for perfection, but if you are going to sit there and complain you can’t get a date or no one is approaching you. The problem is really you. Either your personality is “unapproachable” or you are just not “hot” enough (so do something about it!). Also, no one should be a stick thin model ( i am 5’7” 126 – so i am no model either). But if you have a overweight, put down your big mac and get on a diet or do some outdoor activity. Stop complaining!
My comments are NEVER negative. I am not going to sugar-coat anything and I am going to say like it is.
Thank you Tonya!
I will admit reason why I myself go to the gym is to look good for the ladies. It is not the only reason, having (reasonably) defined biceps is kind of its own reward. But it is certainly one reason.
Tonya, your comments are negative because you make a lot of generalizations – for instance, that people who are internet dating (which is a lot of people) aren’t getting dates in real life, or aren’t trying to get out there. Sometimes you can meet a lot of people and it still doesn’t mean you’ve met the one you want to spend the rest of your life with. Sometimes you meet a lot of people who are taken. Some people will date virtually anyone and be happy, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but not everyone is like that. Sometimes you may have been in a long relationship that broke up, or even lost your fiancee in the WTC. There are many reasons why someone might end up single without it being their fault. Some aren’t as obvious as the fact that they are negative or need to lose pounds.
For you to say that internet dating is a sign that people aren’t getting out there enough is wrong. It’s also negative. And yes, women may whine more than men, but that doesn’t mean that all of them are whiners.
And the ones who do complain about not having found a good man aren’t necessarily that way because they’re undatable or aren’t working on themselves. SOME are. Not all.
You say you are engaged. I would bet that you are really young. Because if I was engaged and very young, I would have the same sunny perspective that it’s easy to meet the right person, and that people who can’t meet that person are doing something wrong. But if your engagement broke up tomorrow (how did you meet him? work? school? those are the easy ways, but don’t always happen) and you had to date in the real world, not through work or school, you’d realize it’s not easy.
You are right that SOME women whine and should work on themselves. But internet dating isn’t always evil. And it’s not always women’s fault.
I do agree with Derek that people can always stand to be healthier and take good care of their body (without being anorexic etc, of course). No argument there.
[…] But of course no one is perfect, I certainly don’t expect all of those things. So what do I want? Someone accused me of making looks my No. 1 criterion, but that isn’t really true. In fact over the past week or three I’ve done something thinking about what I actually want in a woman. So here is my real list of criteria. […]